Colin: Change is a constant part of our lives...and it's true that change is hard. At the same time, it is true that even if individual choices do not have a huge impact on climate change… small steps remain and we must do our best to make climate-friendly choices.
So, given these two conflicting ideas, how can we change our lives to do our part to prevent climate catastrophe? But how do we bring about personal change... how do we influence our friends and neighbors to make that change happen? What about our cities and towns? Or our territory? Or the whole country? Can my reusable shopping bag drive traffic?
Joining me today to discuss what we need to do, individually and collectively, to change our lives and make them more sustainable is... climate activist, behavioral psychologist and award-winning author Susan Schneider. Susan uses her training in behavioral science to understand what motivates others to make climate choices so we can all make those choices and change our lives more easily. Dr. Schneider taught psychology at Western Michigan University before moving to Michigan.
Susan and I discussed why it's so hard to change habits, how we can change them, and why I'm such a weird competitor in cycling.
Colin: Susan, welcome to the podcast.
Susan: Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity.
Colin: You've had a very interesting career. You start as an engineer and then switch to psychology, focusing on the learning process and behavioral analysis. And now your work is focused on how we can apply behavioral science to the climate crisis. Susan, I have so many questions for you, but let's start with the science. What are the basic principles of teaching the psychology of behavior?
Susan: Of course. It is based on core learning principles such as positive reinforcement and more. By itself, positive reinforcement seems simple enough. But like most things in life, it's definitely more than that. For example, positive reinforcement comes in many sizes: large and small, natural and artificial, internal and external, immediate and delayed. And all of them have important applications in the development of sustainable interventions.
Colin: What other principles have you seen?
Susan: Sometimes we refer to ABC, Colleen, in terms of environmental antecedents and then behavior and consequences. And that is not all. There is a wider context, i.e. There is a story. And all of these factors interact in complex ways, but the basic idea behind learning from results is quite simple. And you can see how important this is and why multicellular life emerged so early in its history.
Colleen: By the way, I can't help but remember when I first trained my dog, and I often feel like I'm reinforcing a bad habit or bad behavior! Tell us how it works with people, especially when you're trying to change someone's behavior towards green and sustainable habits.
Susan: I thought I'd mention behavioral economics to answer this question, because it's one of the most well-known interdisciplinary approaches to sustainable development in all areas of economics, of course, in many areas of psychology, including myself. behavioral analysis.
And the conclusions that are important in the principles of learning are so general that they can be found everywhere. And the principles intersect with all of these areas of behavioral science. Now we are all working together on the climate crisis, which is very important because we need all the different elements if we are to adequately deal with it.
Colin: Well, that's very true. And I have to ask you this question. Why is science and information not enough to get people to change their behavior?
Susan: There are many reasons for this. Of course, it depends on the person and the situation. Thus, information alone is often not enough to change people's behavior. We see through diet and exercise. People know they need to exercise more. This can be difficult to do without additional help. Two of the barriers preventing people from greening their behavior are old habits rooted in our fossil fuel infrastructure in the developed world, as the American Psychological Association Task Force investigated. And we are used to it, it's easier, more often they pay more.
Therefore, the transition to a new habit is not an easy task. That's why. Many of us have this hopeless feeling that the climate crisis is such a big problem, that there are so many different problems, that what we can do in our own lives or around us is only a small part. This is a motivational test. In some cases, there is also a lack of knowledge. This makes it difficult for people to be ready for the changes needed to be sustainable. Role models help. Some people have it, some don't. Social support. The fact that these greenhouse gases are invisible is also a real problem, because anyone can tell from the smoke that yes, we have serious air pollution.
This is not the case with greenhouse gas emissions. I think we could do more with the feedback, just to be clear, yes, we joke with them like crazy. In addition, although we have made progress in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, we have not seen progress in reducing emissions.
Colin: What strategies can we use to change our habits?
Susan: Yes, there is. We do what we have to do to form new habits, including things like increasing social support. For example, just a confession. Whether it's cycling to work, driving a car, or going on a plant-based diet, etc., it's the new social norm. It took some time for people in the US to start recycling waste regularly. Now, for most of us, this is a pretty automatic habit. For other green social norms that help fight the climate crisis, we must act with that kind of influence.
Making promises and keeping promises is a great motivator, especially if at least one person knows and can support you. And it's inspiring when you see yourself facing the challenges that you put in front of you. To document progress, again, as I mentioned earlier, I think we can do a lot to create new habits, to show people that it's not in vain, we can make a difference, we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We have to show this to people because it is so powerful. All the money you save. Unfortunately, in most cases it is already too late. So delayed rewards are usually not as effective as immediate rewards, but you can earn faster to make up for the delay.
Colin: I would appreciate it if you could share some examples. I know we've already talked about the Change Tools website which has great resources. But I was wondering if you could give some examples of projects that the team has taken on and succeeded.
Susan: Yes, of course. I want to reinforce what you said about the change tool. This is an excellent resource. It contains everything you need to know about inspiring success that can be applied at the community level. And they can really make a difference. You know, it's not like the level of national politics. But if our district's school districts, local businesses, local governments, and health networks can find sustainable practices at this level of integration, that's very important. Of course it increases. It's not just someone changing light bulbs. One such example that I like to use is in the Instruments of Change database, and the freely available database, believe it or not, is the Minnesota School District.
The Cambridge-Isanti area, let's welcome them, is the first in Minnesota. They are developing a multi-year green group based program that brings together faculty, staff and students to brainstorm ways to reduce fossil fuel and electricity use in any way possible. With social reinforcement, you have a group dynamic. When they discover that people are saving energy by cutting greenhouse gas emissions, they immediately implement accelerators. They also use the school competition in the area. If before it was a sports competition, now let's have an energy-draining competition.
And they used low-cost incentives like public recognition, which are very effective but cost-effective for school districts in financial trouble. And over the years, they have saved millions of dollars for school districts that have implemented school programs instead of carbon pollution.
Colin: It's really interesting, I think it's a good example of a school competition. Let me tell you a short story about UCS. Before Covid, every May we will spend a month cycling to work and having competitions between our offices. Even if you get something as small as this daily sticker to do something while cycling, it's amazing how small a reward can be that gives you an incentive to do something.
Susan: Right. And some projects actually use it very cleverly, I think. I can give an example if I want. Vermont utilities, maybe.
Colin: Yes please.
Susan: Most people think that the automatic incentive to achieve sustainability is financial, and of course it can be very effective. But it's not always the best choice. It doesn't always work. A good example is the facility in Vermont, one of Vermont's major utilities, which creates problems because Vermont has more heatwaves, just like anywhere else. And that's the problem with their system. They have to go out of their usual network and take more. Nobody is happy.
So they want to limit peak demand in the summer with air conditioners. They use a method called time-of-use pricing which is very common and often used. This means they charge more per kilowatt hour during the day and early morning when AC demand is high. Again, this pricing approach usually works, but in this case it honestly didn't cost much, and Vermonters were willing to pay more for convenience, so it failed. The utility then tries something very new. Talk about out-of-the-box thinking. Anyway... and remember, this is Vermont, so it's a small state. As a group, they tell all their utility customers that peak demand will stay below a certain level during the next heat wave, and then the utility will donate $1,000 to a local animal shelter.
It is clear that charity must be indisputable. People think it's very neat. They talked about it, the tool gave feedback, and it worked. And the next heat wave, they used domestic violence protection, and it worked. And this view gives hope to human nature.
Colin: One of the best things about what you do is knowing what works and what doesn't. Can you share an example of trying to implement an empty zone, I'm sure it was in high school?
Susan: Yes. I was directly involved in the creation of the Climate Action Coalition. California's Central Valley faced a major air pollution problem even before climate and geography change. Asthma is common. For internal combustion engines, it is not necessary to put the machine into sleep mode for more than 10 seconds. From the manufacturer, as well as independent scientific reviews. And it's a win-win situation if you reduce unnecessary downtime at school supplies, reduce air pollution, it's better for children's health, you save fuel, and of course you do a little bit to solve the climate crisis. . It really doesn't need to be mentioned, does it?
So all schools in our area get this score, but many schools don't get it. So, you know, in this case, it shows how it can be helpful for your local business, your local school district, to see the barriers to change at the community level that you want. Why don't most schools have signs? And this may be due to the fact that there is nowhere to put it, or it will require additional costs. It may not be a priority for busy school leaders. It's hard to understand. So we're trying to engage school district leaders, make a similar call and send out more posters, and when we pick up the pace, COVID will hit and no one will go to school.
So let's keep trying. And, of course, there are a number of other projects to keep people busy. As we saw earlier, information alone is often not enough. Therefore, in addition to information, there are several projects designed to prevent parents from being lazy to pick up and drop off their children. What we chose to include in our region is unemployed California based on EPA sources. They usually receive information about the availability of pick-up and drop-off locations before the start of the project.
Then, having received the information, the students themselves find the driver. They give them pamphlets explaining why you shouldn't be unemployed and make them sign a letter of resignation. And then they give them a notebook that they can put in the car, because there is a sign next to it that will help them remember. Then they waited a few weeks and took the data again, and data from Vermont and California showed that unemployment had dropped from 40% to 50%.
Colin: That's great.
Susan: Yes. And then, hopefully, when the parents find out, they will form new habits and find themselves unemployed somewhere else. At least that's hope.
Colin: I like this example because it really shows the importance of our communication. Printing out the information on the board didn't work, but getting the students involved in the science project and communicating the results directly to the parents did. I find this very interesting.
Susan: Yes. Everything we do to motivate ourselves and find support during the transition. Again, social support is very important. The incentive can go a long way, document progress, make it interesting, and keep going until a new habit is formed.
Colin: How important is the timing of the award?
Susan: Honestly, it's a whole area when I interpret discounting, it's a key part of behavioral economics, it's the layered approach to sustainability that I'm talking about. The idea is that when a reward is delayed, its value usually decreases. For example, a hundred dollars a year is now much less than $100 for most of us.
And that in itself is a major cause of the climate crisis, because its worst effects are being delayed. Many people are now suffering from bad decisions made in the 1990s, when rapid consolidation outweighed the benefits of more and more caps on greenhouse gas emissions. This price drop is sharp at first and then even lower and is explained by the hyperbolic model. And this has been discovered by people in my field of behavior analysis. But in many areas, people have found ways to get rid of procrastination so we can make smarter choices. And, of course, this includes forming new habits. So all you get is instant boosts like extra badges and recognition that many companies and non-profits use that can really make a difference.
Colin: How important is feedback when trying to change our habits?
Susan: Yes. I'm so glad you asked. It is a ubiquitous feature of many resilience interventions and has several behavioral functions. When we receive feedback, we can learn how we did it, and the information itself can be invaluable. We see if we are making progress. For example, when the Prius comes out, drivers can see real-time fuel consumption while driving.
Colin: Right. On the dashboard.
Susan: Right.
Colin: I love this feature. I love this feature.
Susan: And people are starting to drive more efficiently. And in fact, a group of hypermilers are starting to compete against each other to see what level of fuel economy they can achieve. And last time before Covid Hybrid Fest, the winner of the fuel economy contest hit an impressive 180mpg.
Colin: wow
Susan: Yes. Ani talked about the power of feedback. This can be very inspiring.
Колин: Итак, давайте немного поговорим о формировании и стимулировании роста. Сообщите мне об этом.
Сьюзан: Да. Это обычное явление, когда вы хотите связаться с существующими людьми, пытаясь выучить новую привычку. По сути, вы не ожидаете, что люди изменятся за одну ночь. Так что тот, кто всегда ездит на работу верхом, не сможет ездить на велосипеде каждый день без посторонней помощи. Я имею в виду, может быть, вовсе нет. Но только для того, чтобы заставить сотрудников работать на велосипеде, организация может упростить задачу, предоставив стойки для велосипедов и душевые, велосипедные дорожки и общественный транспорт, удобный для велосипедистов. твой велосипед в вашем районе
Важно говорить на велосипеде.
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: ? ... дает определение старому детству "Kazaqaza".
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: . слишком много всего происходит. путь. . Если смотреть в окно с красивым видом, то номер, вид. армирование. . Однако чаще всего гибкий график означает, что вы потерпите неудачу в следующий раз, когда попытаетесь.
для азартных игр тарелки
- ?
1970 200 Около 4,8 с 6 7 теперь мы собираемся отправиться в путь с электромобилем
Однако во время тренировки водители этих автомобилей получили от своих начальников хороший расход топлива.. но . И это помогало на время, но тоже перестало. বিব্বা -সাম্ন্ট্ত অত্র্য, я уверен, после того, как это закончится, после того, как это закончится, после того, как это закончится, после того, как это закончится, я уверен. . . Допустим, стимулами в этом исследовании были не такие важные вещи, как модный ресторан... ❤
दिस्सु सेसिक्तिक्तिक, यायु, ये ,,, но чтобы продолжить и ,, вам нужно немного увеличить. .
❤ привычка... много
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В тяжелом доме дом уменьшен
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: удачи в этом и получить людей в вашей сети. ❤
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